Measure Soft Skills to Show Your Return on Learning

Length: 60 minutes
Category: Learning Styles, Performance Management, Recorded Webinars, Topics
ID: W-1306


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Learning is a strategic business tool, and measuring the Return on Learning (ROL) demonstrates the impact L&D has on the organization. While tracking technical skills by testing and demonstration is tangible, it’s the high-level soft, or life, skills such as critical thinking, empathy, communication, and an ability to deal with the ambiguity that is harder to evaluate and determine the fiscal impact. Have you ever found yourself in a situation where a learning solution was implemented and resulted in a positive outcome but was told you unable to measure the impact? You can and should since the solution affects performance and does have a measurable impact. This session will highlight metrics and techniques you can use to evaluate and put a cost on the impact learning solutions have regarding the performance environment within an organization.

More than traditional ROI, where the expenditure cost in terms of software, trainers, and tools to create learning is measured against the return (profit and revenue), ROL measures the cost of the problem and its impact on the organization against the cost of creating and delivering the learning solution. From attrition to leadership communication, you can measure solutions that provide a clear and effective impact on business processes and people. This session will discuss 2-3 case studies that address learning solutions used to generate discussions beyond ROI and conclude with a free measurement tool provided to you to populate fiscal results.

Participants Will Learn:

  • How to describe 3 or more of the life skills detailed in the presentation.
  • 3 or more of the metrics used to measure life skills.
  • How to populate a possible ROL value based on case study data using the calculator provided.
  • How to describe the value ROL brings to a Learning & Development team.

 Who Should Attend:

  • Training and HR professionals
  • Managers and supervisors
  • Anyone interested in Return on Learning

Additional Resources:


Forehead - Entrepreneur

William J. Ryan, PhD is the Principal Consultant with Ryan Consulting, LLC using learning as a strategic business tool to develop and impact people to improve retention, engagement, and performance.  Bill has a demonstrated record of corporate and industrial management experience leading performance support and instructional design teams globally including government (Dept. of Energy), high technology (IBM & Westinghouse), and health-related industries including home health care and insurance (Humana).  Recent clients include Delta Faucet with a comprehensive talent staffing and development plan, Blue Circle Leadership developing a blended online program in leadership development, developing an implementation strategy for a Hiring for Competency model used by the National Retail Services, a state initiative focused on workforce development helping businesses retain and develop employees. He is actively working with a clinical start-up focused on improved neonatal techniques for clinicians across the country and on a blended leadership and coaching program for a multi-state manufacturing concern.  Bill holds an M.S. from Ithaca College focused on Instructional Design and a Ph.D. in Computing Technology in Education from Nova Southeastern University.  For more information, please visit his website at, via email at, or at (502) 797-2479. Connect with Bill on LinkedIn and Twitter.


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Measure Soft Skills to Show Your Return on Learning



Hi everyone, and welcome to today’s webinar, Measuring Soft Skills to Show Your Return on Learning. Hosted by HRDQ-U and presented by Bill Ryan. My name is Sarah, and I will moderate today’s webinar. Webinar will last around one hour. If you have any questions, please type them into the question area on your GoToWebinar control panel, and we’ll answer as many as we can during today’s session.


Today’s webinar is sponsored by HRDQ-U Virtual Seminars, HRDQ-U virtual seminars, are engaging soft skills training classes with real-time Interaction and expert trainers, enroll your organization’s learners in HRDQ-U virtual seminars, and let them develop the performance skills that they need for their home or office. And on any device from desktop to mobile, learn more at


I’m excited to introduce our presenter today, Bill Ryan. Bill is the Principal Consultant with Ryan Consulting, using learning as a strategic business tool to develop an impact people to improve retention, engagement, and performance.


They’ll have a demonstrated record of corporate and industrial management experience, leading performance support and instructional design teams globally, including government, high technology, and health related industries.


They’ll holds an MS from Ithaca College focused on instructional design, and a PhD. in computing technology and education, from Nova Southeastern University. Thank you for joining us today, Bill.


Thank you, Sarah. And I appreciate the opportunity. Hope everyone is safe and sound. Wherever you are. I’m in Louisville, Kentucky, where I kind of went through yesterday and we’re having a low humidity. And, for Kentucky, that’s a big thing and kind of pleasant temperatures. As, you know, in the question box, I’d love to know a little bit more about who we are, and really one thought you would have about return on investment and return on learning. And if you think there’s a difference as organizations, we put in a lot of time, money, and energy into developing, and delivering learning solutions yet.


Often, the big question that we face is, you know, Does the impact that we have on the business?


Is it measurable, doesn’t make a difference. So, I see that, C Petra Nova Scotia’s here, … Julia from New York City is here. Hello, Julia, Welcome. Thank you both. Love to see if in the question box, if you could kinda put in the idea, that’s an executive coach, and your point here is that there’s no difference, Because the whole point of investment and coaching is the learning. That’s a very, very interesting perspective. I would agree. And a wise here, looking at doing some level three and Level four, great. But before being that kind of performance aspect of a program manager, Vanessa from Maryland and Earl from Virginia was a Senior Planner.


You know, I think there is some opportunities, where we get into the idea about is the work that we’re doing more from the perspective of the solution, or from the idea of the impact the solution has, or from the investment, in the infrastructure issue. So, I’m kinda curious from that perspective that they were, the blend is and where the differences are. Now, Sean, I think, has a really good point. He says that ROI and Royal has shared needs and requirements. I wouldn’t really have shared needs and requirements in many ways, but where’s the difference? Do you think, Sean, in the two areas? I think there’s some opportunity because Tide from North Carolina said, you know, from an accounting standpoint, it’s not the same, but from the perspective of the operational point, is it the same? Because what I think when we get caught in is sometimes what are we as learning and development professionals doing? What are we doing in that regard and what are we measuring?


And then the other side of it is from the from the people that we’re serving, what’s what are they measuring? What are their expectations? And what do they want in terms of being able to say this was worth our time to call the R&E team to come in and help us?


Because I think that’s sometimes where the difference comes in our conversations when clients come in our door.


There’s a, there’s a little stigma sometimes around the idea that we have that that kind of: Do you want fries with that mentality, will just help you tell us what you want. We’ll help you.


And there is a little bit of this, yes, we want to help, but we need to be able to have that kind of conversation that says that what we’re doing makes a difference, and we know it makes a difference to the business from the learner standpoint. Why don’t know about that, Todd?


When you think the type doesn’t think there’s much of a difference, if it, from the learner standpoint, let me ask you this time. Do you think the measurement is? Well, how would you measure it from a learner’s perspective?


Where would, or would a difference from the learner’s perspective happen?


Would it happen more from the learning and the solution being done, or from the work?


And that’s kinda where part of my question kind of comes into it. I think Pat brought up a really good point here. I wish you could see some of these comments, and I’m gonna share them all as much as I can with you, because I think you folks have got some great experiences that you can share with each other. And that’s what I want to create here, is kind of that ability to share with you. Because Pat brought in some idea that that these shifts in positive behavior, like communication delegation.


I think those are some of the things that come into play, and we actually have an example that we will look into and dig a little deeper, and, and, and then the bottom line about this is establishing a baseline of what is currently happening. And you are right on target path. So keep that in line because that’s going to be something that we’re going to come on and talk about a few more times. You’ll see this from Brandon Hall. They did a work with the learning experience platform learning pool. And in that, they kinda did a little survey of the lives, of, a lot of companies trying to idea what is going on, in terms of the measurement area. Because we put a lot of time into designing, and we put a lot of time into creating it, and then delivering these training solutions. But not everybody has a clue on the impact to that person. To what, I think I’ve said, you know, from that learner’s perspective, and the process that’s being focused on, we also tend to focus on the technical skills.


Now, I think one of the things that kind of comes into play, is when we look at from the business side, you know, they’re telling us that what we need to do is train these people to be able to perform things.


one of the things that comes into play, I think, in the organizational aspect of performance, is that we have to measure the behavioral capabilities that people use, those life skills, that we need to perform well in Teams with our clients, across organizational lines, and our end user community.


I think that a lot of the opportunities that you see in this chart, kinda show that, we don’t really know, the type, or having, especially in the informal. If you think to Daniel, I’m going to say, let’s take that out for a second. Just think about it from the, the 72,010 model, where, you know, people have the opportunity to, you know, lean across the go, hey, Bob, how do you do this? How do we measure that?


And, and, for some people, you’ll go, though, there is no way to measure it, but I want to challenge us into that, because I think there are ways to look at this and to look at this from an effectiveness of measurement. If we focus on what the business is using.


So share with me just a little bit here.


What are some of the key data points that you look at, from the perspective of, of measuring? And I’m, I’m sorry, I forgot who said that they were looking at level three and level four, which is awesome, but I’m curious, what kind of data points are being collected that you folks return now?


Sean brought out the idea that that field experience and partnering in English with Education, if I understood your point here, is more likely to be successful. And I think that’s a really good point.


It kind of brings the ability to put concept and content and context together, which I think it would help create a better performance, which, at that point in time, would kind of, I think you’d see results come back and an ROI kind of fashion. Anna looks at the idea that the number of promotions and special projects within their cohort, or one of the key data points, what Within the number is it? just the number of promotions, Anna?


Pat brings on, depends on the competency.


Oh, tell me more about that. I’m a little curious about Pat, in terms of the data points in terms of the competencies, or are you looking at different levels of proficiency within sub skills?


Question mark, question mark.


Curious on that.


And Ana comes from time and money saved from divisions and offices as a result of the employees completed training.


So, is this just about, like, travel and time in e-learning compared to classroom kind of travel, Anna? Or is it about scores?


In terms of results that are done from the tests that are administered within the learning.


Old, Pat brought up an interesting question, that there’s some of the intangible aspects of a team that is not functioning, what’s causing the dysfunction.


So take that one more step, Pat.


Where do they want to be?


You ask good points, very, very good question, very consultative.


and, and I think that’s one of those aspects of how you start been considering those criteria as metrics to be measured.


Where can you start looking at that as a way to put a hard dollar to that soft skill?


Because I think that’s kind of one of those aspects of this whole idea of measurement that we don’t dig deep enough into, is that there’s, there’s a whole range of the performance cycle beyond just the technical skills.


And I think one of the things that comes into this whole idea is that when we look at the return on investment as a kind of a defined metrics, that’s an internal view of impact.


So I think when you think about that from our perspective, know, I mean having been in the L&D space and having to add to run teams and defend teams and budgets And all those kind of things. What’s your ROI?


And I think these are the kinds of things that we look at from an L&D perspective sometimes, and pad that is a great impact shared up the idea that customer satisfaction increases of the team functions, great example.


And, and I think that’s something that we’ll look at Hold onto that thought for just a minute that, because I think one of the things that we sometimes get caught in in the LMB spaces, what we see here, and these are items that are under our control.


These are the kind of metrics you’ll find in a learning management system, in a SharePoint system.


In classroom attendance or scores, these are the things that matter to us.


And we often want to know what scores are in modules, because we can align them too, the objectives, we can align them to, our curriculum development. We can look at that from an instructional perspective, to say, are we being accurate? Or are we doing instructionally, sound work?


But that’s a different part of the discussion, because, as we need to look to the outside business environment, or, as Pat just said, this idea of customer satisfaction to use the metrics that the organization uses, because we need to change those numbers that they’re already using.


Going back earlier, we talked about the idea of, I’m sorry, I forgot too many names. I apologize.


You know, one of the ideas was that, you know, the impact on the employee, on the individual, at the workplace, we don’t have to go out and recreate matrix.


If we use what the organizations are already using, then we can look at ways that, you know, we can obtain change within those metrics. And I think it was, Julia, I’m guessing, if I’m wrong, you’ve tag me, said, collect the information ahead of time.


And that is the biggest step right there.


Find out what the organizational team is using your client is using, in terms of how someone is successful.


Get those numbers now, and then when you implement that, see if those metrics change. You can increase the effectiveness.


You can see these kinds of changes in Patterns behaviors, as, as Pat was mentioning earlier, things like health, safety, numbers, retention. That’s a big one.


And, I think one of the things that kinda comes into when we play about this, is, is, that brought up this point right here in, it’s very well timely, is getting the entire organization to buy into making, learning a living entity. And, I look at, this, is, one of my tags is, learning is a strategic business tool.


We’re a strategic part of the business, but that means that we must align with the business.


So, I’ll say something, you know, that some people will, will gas back.


But, when it comes to the LMS, I don’t use those numbers.


Yeah, instructional designers. And of course, core developers absolutely. Take a look at it just from an instructional perspective but reporting those out to the business.


What’s the point?


Because the point comes back down to is, what are they measuring?


Because once we talk their language, it matters to them.


And once we start solving their problems that they can see changing their values, they’re metrics, then that’s important. And that’s when I think L&D becomes a kind of living entity in the organization.


As, as Pat just shared, one of the things that kind of kind of grabbed me in this past year was there was a recent study that came out from HR Director. They did it in January.


They had surveyed over 23,000 employers, and they uncovered these top five skills as the most needed skills that they said we’re going to happen in 20 21.


And what’s interesting is, following deeper down, they asked the same questions to employees and what their most important life skills were, and, from the employee’s perspective, they listed people management skills, communication, and interpersonal skills, critical thinking, negotiation, judgement, and decision-making skills.


So, while communication and interpersonal were on both the lists, there are no technical skills anywhere listed.


It’s the personal attributes that have the biggest impact on performance over the long haul.


And I think that’s one of the things that we sometimes, get lost in, is, it’s easy to, to train tech.


I get it.


All right, I come from that world, and it’s comfortable. And it’s, it’s a little, there’s not a lot of gray in that space. And I like there, too.


But what we need to think about are the tools that people use in doing their role communication, and how they handoff to up above, or downstream, upstream, or downstream. So, I take one of these three, I think these are the biggest three.


And, and I’m just curious if you had to come back and say, what is a metric that you would use if you were asked to fix one of these problems in a work situation or a client situation?


What would you, what would be a suggestion to measure, from a business perspective, communication, interpersonal, ability to adapt are people management? What would you think would be a possible metric that could be looked at?


Because I think there are a lot of opportunities.


When we started thinking of a bit different skill that we use, Cynthia, brought up a number of complaints filed, very, very good. Now with a file, if I would do you think that would be in people management or communication?


Maybe people management … complaints and HR.


Shawn, 360 evaluations OK, Pat comes up with interpersonal conflicts.


Amy Pipestem with some voluntary turnover’s underneath people management. That’s true.


How many people choose, you know, I mean, attrition is a is a big factor?


I have to tell people, if you want to make money, keep people, it’s, it’s the first thing, you know, don’t train them or keep the ones that are already better, so, it’s, it’s, it’s one that I think we often overlook sometimes. Cynthia Suggested in underneath Communication. Thank you, Cynthia. That was the number of complaints, OK?


You could probably put it on people management to from an HR perspective, another idea said, he also suggested, you know, the time needed to implement new processes, that’s a very good point.


Did it take longer to adopt a new change, or did it go slower?


Mary has added engagement surveys. That’s a great one.


Know, there’s so much work that’s been done in Gallup. that, and. I’m assuming people know about the Q 12. Right? And if you don’t say so, otherwise, I’m going to assume by now, most of us know about the Q 12 Engagement surveys.


And we know that, more engaged people are, the longer they stay, the, the healthier they are, the better quality and safety you see. And those are all important things for a successful organization.


So, Richard asked, being able to meet team and individual goals, agreed and people management, and then just level of effectiveness from gate. So, I think those are all, you know, really, really good, good ideas, and very, very good points where you can start bringing up these suggestions of what can you measure.


And sometimes, you know, you, in a business setting.


one of the challenges, I think, is when you think about some of all these suggestions that you folks have raised, is that the business may be monitoring.


Certain kind of productivity metrics, they may be in a manufacturing process, it could be you know number of widgets and per hour and at a quality level. So the question kind of comes into play is how do you start measuring some of these particular aspects and how do you start incorporating them into the conversation?


Because it’s a lot easier to measure how many widgets are being made per hour at a certain level of quality, comparatively speaking to interpersonal conflicts or the number of complaints and how does that relate to the widgets? So, there are ways to do it, And I think that the issue comes back into, is how do we communicate and connect with our business partners?


And, and that takes me, you know, to say, again, let’s get away from the LMS, let’s get away from our space and move into the operational space because that’s what happens, because we need to measure what matters to the business.


So, you know, some examples, kinda come into play it in, or other wants to think about, is in the fruit as a suggestion, is gonna win the communication space, consider loss work time.


And, that could be from injuries, that could be from people calling in sick, could be from accidents where they have to go, be seen by a nurse, you know, short-term. Also, the quality scores don’t forget quality scores when that kind of comes into play.


Think about the ability to change or adapt change.


You can start looking at things like sick days and wellness, know, what? Where do you see your population coming into play? Do you see any dips and in workforce and staffing issues? And safety is always a huge driver. When, when you’re looking at change management initiatives as as a metric to measure, is to look at.


You can equate safety numbers to proficiency levels. Some of that comes not exactly into the quality aspect, but are people staying within the parameters of working in safe spaces and in following the procedures that are put in place at that point in time?


And we did mention here, you know, earlier, when tons of people management is the idea of retention, and, and, you know, keeping people together, is, I think, you know, a very important metric. That is very measurable in terms of dollars and cents. But when we often kinda forget, is Net Promoter Scores.


And I think there’s opportunities to look at that from, you know, the idea of, from call centers to retail. And, and in those areas of, of, you know, trying to look at, you know, how, how are we being seen by our end users, perhaps our customer base?


And what does that aspect of our teammate’s actions have on our business perspective? And that’s one way of looking at it.


So there’s ways to look at bringing in other criteria that can have that kind of measurable aspect.


So, I think those are all good things, And I think that, you know, when we stop and just take a moment to look at this, that we can, we can do this from a business perspective.


And, was a Pat, I’m sorry, Or Julia, who said, the key is to go and going ahead of time and get the matrix first. You know, from, from Instructure perspective, we talk about backwards design sometimes and one of the three steps of backwards design is defined what success looks like.


Burst, in that operational space, to that person, the learner, the participant, the worker, then define how you measure that success.


How are they measured to be a successful performer, identify those, and then the third part is, just develop the materials that then create that path for them to achieve success, using the defined measurement criteria.


So, it kinda comes into the same play here.


So, it part of, of a leadership program that I worked on for supervisors, at one point, one of the success criteria, was a weekly report that supervisors had to provide within a call center environment, up to a manager, and they were now 25 or 30 supervisors per manager in these call center floor areas.


And it, you know, these are people that had not really done these kind of reports before, and, and I use kind of a portfolio minds process at the time, where prior supervisors will become coaches, and they get to review those first drafts. And, and what we noticed was that the amount of negative feedback from managers and supervisors and impossible disciplinary actions dropped dramatically. Once we had that kind of little coaching supervisors, helping the new supervisors, right?


These reports and that they could see them on kind of an iterative basis because we, in this portfolio kind of process so that you had this ability to meet the standard something brand-new, kinda do it in a scaffolded approach. But, it allowed, it was one area that that in all the training nobody really covered on.


Here’s the report fill out the report.


That’s the training.


Writing a report, is a process.


And so learning, how the business values, that kind of communication skill.


Took a jump of faith from the leadership to let us try this model, but it worked tremendously because the amount of time that was being lost by these new supervisors, and then the whole back and forth and back and forth, and back and forth of criticism. Because they weren’t doing it the right way.


Kinda disappeared.


Once we put that kind of model into place, is this matrix learning what the entire performance metric cycle is, is kind of a key part of it, too.


Let me ask you a question.


I had a client recently who was very, very focused and a new manufacturing process they put in place. But they had very inconsistent output levels.


And they had some quality issues as new manufacturing.


Now, he’d invested in skill training for the team.


He had made some major improvements to several hardware systems, but this line was not meeting the operational metrics.


So the challenge was to get this line on a consistent output.


And I didn’t run into, re, review and revise. The training when I found out was to review and revise the training. Again, because it had already been done.


Didn’t know that it’s time. So, I asked to meet the team, and my first clue was, kind of inner introductory meeting, No one really wanted to answer my question about some of the process.


How the process works, the handoffs worked? And I asked a little bit about, you know, team culture, and those kind of things. And don’t we really wanted to look me in the eye, and it was kind of quiet.


And I thought was just, you know, on the new guy, just take it by not taking a little bit. But then I got to go observe for the next few days, because I was reviewing the materials, and I wasn’t reviewing materials on-site at the time. You can take, you know, this this took place pre pandemic.


And, and so I was able to go kind of observe the situation and as I was reviewing the steps along this process, the materials along this process, in the manufacturing line, the shift supervisor kinda grab my attention, because he was really, really determined that that line was going to meet the metrics. And, in fact, he wanted to increase and exceed those metrics.


So, as I was reviewing it, I saw him at different points in time, kind of having words with teammates along the way.


Out, eventually, I kind of noticed, at times, the line would slow down.


And I started tracking the output to the conversations the supervisor was having, And I realized there was a correlation.


So, I shared this with the plant manager, and I suggested that we should spend some time coaching the supervisor and working with the team, and I got a response, etcetera.


Those are just soft skills, and it wasn’t really something you can measure. He was sure, it was the training.


So, what do you think?


What would you have done?


And how would you have that conversation?


Because the plant manager who wrote the checks, was convinced this was a training issue.


Cindy already, has jumped into say it’s coaching.


And Sean oh, excuse me, Pat Head said.


It’s OK to be biased. Coaching and team coaching could be useful. And Sean likes to share the idea that the flogging will continue until morale improves. Thank you. It’s funny coaching.


So I see a trend, I agree, you already knew that.


But, well, how would you have the conversation with a plant manager Who was convinced this was a training issue?


What are the kind of things that you might want to bring up?


How would you get him past the flogging if you will?


Um, tell me more, Pat, because you say, coaching the supervisor alone isn’t the solution. That’s a good point, So, what else would you suggest, Pat? What other parts should be included in the solution?


Amy, Amy, shares in that the share with the client, that there probably is a training issue, but no training will overcome other things in the performance systems and then share coaching, feedback, culture, et cetera.


So, really good points, and, and that’s a nice way of kind of going, I heard you, and I can do some of this training stuff because you think it’s important and, by the way, and there may be some, that’s a very, very good point, Pat shared in that, there’s team dynamics and involved.


And Pat also wanted to bring out the team building, can improve communications and team performance. That’s true about the team, but what would you think about it from the supervisor’s point?


And I’m back down to how do I get how do I get the plant manager to change his mind, to say, let’s look at this from a coaching perspective.


OK, describe while I did, I’ll get the supervisors point of view, Sean offers. That’s a very good point.


What are the differences?


Describe what I see, get the supervisor, get what he sees, very good point, Sean, and that kinda goes in with Pat’s point of a 360 evaluation.


Um, oh, so Gay suggested that asking the manager, who does he think needs training? And on what?


Oh, that would cause gay things, say that point, that perhaps the managers and their supervisor, that point, we’d hope is response, would allow me to bridge into the fact that the staff will now listen to training, to feel heard by the supervisor, OK, play into some of those emotions. Another 360 suggestion. Good point, Amy.


Cynthia said, you know, if we share the observation of the conversation, how slow down, and share with him your impression, ask him what he thinks about it as a way to open the conversation. Those are good points about the supervisor.


Plant manager is the one who doesn’t want to do anything, but train.


What do you think about that?


Richard has begun and focusing on the data points, correlation with the supervisor, operating line slows down, already, invest in training, take the conversation forward from there. Richard, hold onto that thought. They’ll go away.


Um, sure, your metrics and observation from Pat, team performance intervention. That’s a good point, Amy. I think there’s, there’s a point from the team perspective, and there’s a lot of access, the impact of why Todd brings out and asked the managed to identify all the axis and maybe giving me a chance to have those additional access with the training.


Good point.


I’m curious, you bring up a really good point. This is kind of a cultural issue. So, here’s something that happens. So, let me let me tell you what happened down the path.


So, I brought this whole conversation down and I really wanted to get past the idea that this was strictly a hardware thing.


That this was a straight training thing, kind of an ROI conversation. I wanted to focus more on the idea that this is about learning and behavior.


And so, what I wanted to do was, was, you know, have this kind of conversation with the plan manager, and just talk about the idea of how that organization has to look at a learning solution that is around people. And, and that it’s not just a one-time, you go in and train somebody. You know, a lot of times, you know, you, they want you to take everybody offline, train them, and then thrown back on the line.


Pat brought out the idea of how much the line slowing down is costing. So, here’s, Yeah, very good point. And, what I brought out was the idea that, that these soft skills have hard dollar costs, and as I sat with a plant manager, that time and he’s telling me, he says, you know, soft skills, we don’t do, this is just training. I grabbed my pad of paper, and I said, well, this happened, and I’ve been tracking it. So, I said, it happened five times today in each time. The line slowed down for about 10 minutes.


And, I just took the average operator salary, which was 50 bucks an hour.


And so, each time is slowed down That came down to eight dollars and 33%.


That doesn’t sound like a big deal.


But, at 25 times a week, it has 1300 times a year, That’s about $11,000.


I have a little calculator and it’s in your handout. You can go download this little Excel spreadsheet, and, and, or send me an e-mail, I’d be glad to share with you, but I said to him, I say at this time, I’m doing a purely by hand, and I said, what if we could cut these things down? And in overtime, from, you know, how many times it happens too weak to you know, cutting it down to another perspective, to another perspective, to another perspective, 30, 60, 90 days out from this point in time, and I started having this conversation with the plant manager.


It was his numbers, he could see where this number was going, and eventually what I did, I also pulled in the idea that that, you know, this wasn’t a major investment from his perspective because there were actually organizational developers that had coaching certifications that were available internally and they didn’t do a chargeback system.


So I included the idea that this is how much this thing costs already, in terms of slow down, and just time.


And if we added, and I took the Supervisors’ time, and added that out.


And I did charge for that since he would be away from the job for a while, which is about one thousand dollars.


And I said, here’s how much, this could if we stop this, so we reduce this.


You know, from, from happening this many times, this is the kind of cost savings you will see. And I was ready to take a deep breath, and then go into the whole idea of measuring quality, because I had also started collecting data.


At that point in time on when the wind slowed down, the items that came out the other end, add that slow down.


What was the quality levels, and the two were dropping? I just hadn’t had all the numbers at that point in time.


I was gonna go get them If I didn’t win this one, I was going back after the quality numbers, but this was enough to make that plant manager go, Oh, OK.


We’ll try it.


And believe it or not, it did make a difference. Now, it took a little longer. And there were other interventions.


one of the most interesting thing interventions came out of it, though, is what is, And I’m trying to remember who said it.


I think Amy said something about team performance intervention, was that the coach eventually came back and said there is a lack of trust among teammates, and part of it was because they didn’t want to get, at supervisor screaming, I’m one of them. So, there’s a little bit of, you know, if I get supervisor and somebody else, they won’t yell at me kind of thing.


So there was some work around the team, and building trust to realize that if we perform well together, and we all succeed together, that did kind of come out as part of that. And that showed inequality numbers eventually as well.


So, the focus comes back down to is, what, what, measure, what matters, but what matters to the business metrics, and, and I think, you know, Julia brought up, kind of a point is, is, you know, getting things done versus the quality of their work.


Well, I think one of the things that came out, as I just noted, that the coach should come back about the team was, there was a little bit of that culture of fear, and, and I think one of the things that comes into play in that point is that level of trust.


And those are the things that when we look at an L&D solution, if we’re looking at just something that’s broken, we have, I think we’re doing our clients a disservice.


And this is why we need to be looking at this from a much more holistic performance mindset.


What are the components that people use those life skills to perform in their role?


How do they communicate? How do they interact? You know, we all know, Kinda, sometimes, you know, How’s the boss is doing today?


Do I wanna do, I wanna go talk to the boss today or not, and I think those are things that sometimes we, we don’t want to measure, but they have an impact, and they have a class that we can use.


Those are the kinds of things that I think we can borrow pride as, as performance solutions. And talking to the business in the metrics and the numbers that they value.


And that makes us part of there, their team, and I forgot who said it, and about being a part of the, the strategic aspect of the business. Because learning is a strategic kind of business tool.


So I had another, another situation that came up, and, and this was in a call center environment.


And by the way, in this little tool that I have here, one of the things that comes into play is, I collected some of these other tools, like this one on the right-hand side of the screen, that help you figure out what the numbers are. There was a lot of these calculators out there, and all I did was I collected a number of these calculators and put the links in one place just so because I’m because I got lazy, I couldn’t remember them all. And I kept putting them in my browser as a favorite and I could never find them, because I’ve got too many favorites. I’m probably the only one that has done that, but it was certainly a mess for me.


So these kind of links are contained in there, but in this center, we had this whole issue of call centers and we had come up with a solution four, a different kind of onboarding. The call center group had a onboarding solution that was basically day one here, year. Here’s where you park. And here’s where your lunches. Here’s your ID. Report here tomorrow.


And then they went into training.


So And they were leaving about 50 months.


And, and, and we had come back, and I made a recommendation to, that was going to cost $100,000 for the client to implement that extended to onboarding for six months, or six months cycle with a buddy system. The buddies were compensated, the buddies were incentivized to by the retention of the employee.


Those are the kind of, you know, ways we wanted to make sure that this was, everybody was in it, there was something in it for everybody and everybody was in it together. But the client was, you know, saying $100,000? Oh my God.


The average salary was 14 dollars and 21%, an hour at the time, and it came out to be, you, know, what you see here. And what would, the thing that kinda makes it kinda neat is? also, just a little bit bigger. Was that that, that cost was, was, came down to when they left.


Became a $14,000 expenditure to the, to the business unit.


And even when I plug in the idea that no $100,000, you know, was the cost to be of the excuse me, of the, of the plan that we wanted to put in place.


The idea was that over time that we could bring down and reduce attrition, then we could look at this as a million dollar plus savings.


And that was a conversation that suddenly created a whole new dialog with our client, because instead of having this as an expenditure, this became the idea of an investment.


This conversation focused in on retention.


And at that point in time, when you looked at that idea, we started having discussions about quality.


We started discussion having discussions about, you know, what worker training do if we didn’t have to do new hire training non-stop.


So that kind of conversation came into part of our discussion.


And there were more of that came into play too.


And I’m going to ask you and imagine some of you folks are now.


You know, in some kind of call center world.


But when you think about trying to resolve call center attrition, what are some of the other criteria you could include?


That wouldn’t be measurable.


It would have impact to the business. And Julia, I’m glad to know your back, I’m sorry, your laptop rose on your cell.


Well, thanks for coming back.


Who would you think?


Like, at a point about the line, slowing down the coastline, that was, that’s a really good point.


Which goes back to the quality conversation we had earlier.


But, if we look at this from, Mary has had a great one, customer satisfaction surveys, if you’re getting customers, follow ups that are automated, those are great ones, are great, one time. First, call resolution, absolutely. What could you trying to first call resolution as well?


What else would you think about tying into first call resolution, because that’s a that’s a great that’s a great one. The time to read, to resolve it. Yeah. The time.


Good point at how much time it takes, if you can, and that’s correlated by experience.


So you have people that are, say, a two year veteran versus a two week veteran, how long does it take them to resolve? Show the difference.


And if you can get more people to be there two year or two months, and show their time, that is time.


That is being saved, claim that time, put a dollar amount of per hour of, of call center representative and claim their time.


That is a return on learning because they are staying.


When you can increase, that time, they stay, their skillset increases as well. Employee satisfaction.


Good point, I guess, the other thing about first call resolution time adds in Net Promoter scores.


Reach out and see what, what is happening in those kind of scores as well.


You know, you can look at that, not only from the retail perspective, but that happens also within the space of call center reps as well. Edwin, good points, I wouldn’t share that, you know, damage to reputation and lost customers and one area.


You can look at that point, social media.


So you go into social media, get your marketing people, make friends with marketing.


They’re nice, they don’t bite bringing chocolate. It’s kinda like IT. And teasing and teasing anybody out there, I’m just joking around. But go into social media and look for trends. Go to Facebook, go to Twitter. See who’s complaining about at company.


And, and track that. See if if, if there’s what it is before, what kind of complaints maybe in a, there may be an area that you can focus in and see if that damaged reputation and lost customers that Edward suggested, you might see it in that electronic area as well.


Those are, again, things that are measurable.


Um, burnout rate from Pat. Good point. Oh, Google My Business Rating and the social media past suggests that as well. Business ratings content can change, as well.


Julia brought up another point from a different perspective, things to include they happen to Julia’s group is customers are college students but there are other customers, are federal, state, and city regulators to state compliance.


So, if you look at compliance as a business metric, that kinda falls within the safety space. So you can look at this and say how many people made mistakes? How many errors? How many citations, how many write ups are we getting? all those kinds of things. Absentee rates. Absolutely. Pat. That’s another good point. These are all kinds of things you can look at.


No, when we want to look at roles and include the idea that all of these are measurable, and they all have a dollar figure.


If it Jo’s out today because they called in sick, OK, you get a sick day but Joe calls out for three days.


You may want to start thinking about that and or every other day or is going home after a few hours. You know, those are all measurable bye, bye. Bye limits. I mean, there’s, there’s a, you know, a per hour rate we all can live by, and look at this.


And if we can fix those, again, looking at the performance cycle, and then using the life skills that people need to be successful in their performance of their role, then those are the kinds of things that we should include, and those impact, how a person performs in that role.


And that is, when we can start measuring them because that matters to the business, because that’s what matters, because they know they can do the job, Measure what matters.


Measure what matters, focus on what matters to them.


Not, again, go away from the LMS. Walk away from the LMS. First, call resolution, Lower defects, higher, quality scores, upselling numbers in the retail space. For instance, you know anything that is important to the business and to truly measure.


I think the Roi you really gotta focus on the R oh, well that return on learning and I’m going to say I use my favorite four-letter word.


Prior to learning, Assess.


Now, someone said it at the very, very beginning, get information before you implement your solution.


Too often we wait, we see the problem, the clients come in and.


And we want to start solving the problem.


I’m guilty, I raise my hands. I’m one of them.


But I’ve learnt that if you really want to show the business, that what you do matters and that you are a strategic partner measure. Find out where they are or find out where their pain points are. First.


Go in before you do it.


Now, you can do it along while you’re in the development stage, but gather a good amount of data, so that when you do implement, you have something to measure against, take that ownership, the learning solution you’re developing.


Get those current operational metrics, Measure against them all the time.


You know, it gives you the ability to kind of come in and take a look at what’s going on, and then you can identify very clearly to yourself, and to your client, the impact the solution you put in place has, And you can see it, and I’m a real strong believer of track it, track and trend it over time, because you can show that what you’re doing is making a difference.


And if the numbers change, that’s your flag to go in and be a strategic business partner, to go back to your business partner, go, hey, I just looked at our rates. 90 days ago, we did this, and our numbers were this, and all of a sudden, they’re going the wrong direction.


What happened? What’s changed?


Let’s look now.


Being the ability to be the advocate for their business partner, and advocate for the learners, is an S, is a strength that they will value.


It takes time to gain that trust, but when you come back into that, into that environment and say, Hey, what we did, it doesn’t seem to be working.


We need to fix it. So we can have the business that kind of creates a deep dialog, a deep discussion.


And I think an opportunity to have a very meaningful conversation about what kind of strategic partner you are.


And Amy brought up a point that there are other changes to Matrix as well.


Time to adoption, Time to Change, time to market, insights, and lessons learned.


And sometimes the changes that were made initially, you know, in a learning solution, could have changed the way the process that the people were using could change that and that could then take the assumptions that were, that the original solution was based on and change them to.


So modifications are all good or all healthy, and they’re all valuable and it’s just continuing that conversation to become that strategic partner.


You know, Jui brought up a point is, you know, we can correct it, we can manage it quickly so that we’re not cite it again Oh, I’m sorry, I, this is the.


I jumped into part of my brain, saw part of this, and you’re talking about citations from your regulatory compliance, Having the discussion about regulations, changing and keeping complaints, and that’s a good point to space I worked in, was, had a high regulatory need state by state, by state, by state, and often states, you know, kind of changes without telling their other states, or the people that have to follow the rules by state. So, you know, I think one of those challenges, then, is, is, and this is where our value comes into play, is when we can have those kinds of conversations and say, hey, we saw something. What happened? It might be a compliance or regulatory change.


It could have been, they came through, and modify the process. It could be any of those things, but being able to come back and go, I’m using your metrics, I’m seeing a change to what we did.


It’s going the wrong direction.


Let’s revisit this early, I think, makes, makes you the advocate for the organization. And, and then an active and strategic partner at that point in time.


And those are all, I know, kind of a part of how we think we show that the return on learning has an impact. And it’s not just about clicks and scores and those kinds of things. It does look at, at a much deeper level.


What kind of goes into the process of becoming a successful performer?


You know, those are the things that we look at, know, it, because when people are successful, they tend to become engaged highly.


You know, we all need feedback.


We all want to have that conversation that says, hey, you’re doing a great job from a supervisor.


When we look at the idea that, when we can bring a solution that affects a person’s behavior skills, that can improve their performance overall, as well as the technical skills they need to drive their job, but be successful in their role, that will increase their job satisfaction.


And, in that kind of positive success, they become more engaged. They stay longer, are satisfied.


We become, I think, much more clear partner in the relationship. And I think then, at that point in time, we can start seeing how we impact the business, too.


So, instead of being looked at sometimes as an expenditure, or it’s just a training problem.


I think this is when we have the opportunity to start creating that kind of dialog that says, you know, we understand what you’re doing, and we can help you, help your people be successful, and we can all improve.


And I think that’s kinda where we have to have focus more on showing our return on learning, versus just worrying about what the investment is, because it’s much more holistic, and it brings us all to be much more successful at point in time.


So, I have a few more minutes here.


Thank you for your time today. I would love to answer any questions that you have. Again, there is the handout. Please feel free. It’s yours. If you’d like that little spreadsheet, you’re more than welcome to go either downloaded, or just drop me a line, and I’ll be glad to share it. This is something that I care a lot about.


I think you probably could figure that out, And I think it gives us such an opportunity to have a deeper impact into the organizations that we serve and support.


So, if you have any questions, Catharine, you’re more than welcome.


Just throw them into the questions, and I’ll share them, and thanks, by the way, everybody. That, that brought in comments, you guys have a wealth of knowledge, and I hope that you were able to learn from each other as well. You brought up some really good points that I have already taken into me, so I appreciate the sharing from that perspective.


So, we had great participation today from the audience. If you do have any questions, you can type those into the questions box, so we have a couple of minutes here for Bill, to answer any questions that you may have?


You know, Todd brought up a good point, a statistically approvable, cause and effect relationship, is the holy grail that my management wants to see. They all do, Todd.


And I think that’s, that’s, that’s, you know, I think that’s one of the things that we have to look at, is that, if you can show the numbers before, implementation of solution and then attract them.




You know, seven days, 15 days, 30 days, 690.


I think that’s the point where you can start having that kind of cause-and-effect relationship, and then people can start seeing it, especially if you’re using bear numbers that they generate.


I’m a big fan. And even if it’s spreadsheets, you know, if that’s what they’re using out in the line, fine. Give me then, you know, put me on your mailing list, I’m good with it.


You know, I’ll use the, I’ll use your numbers, And, and at that point in time, it isn’t a question of, well, you know, our numbers show this. No, well, use yours.


I think that’s one of those.


When you can just get that out of the way, just tell me what it is I’ll do, and we’ll measure that.


And that kinda comes back into my point of the backwards model.


You know, define what success looks like in that manual, or in that workspace, that performance space, and then define how it’s measured from a business, but that organizational perspective, then work backwards to find it from there. So, but yeah, I think everybody wants to see, you know, management always wants to look at this.


You know, I was in a space once that.


The organization had done some outsourcing and in theory, we would not be training any additional like employees, but we were supporting the Outsourcing Teams. And so, the, the mental mindset was, well, you’re not supporting the employees, you know, because there’s not as many of them because we’re services are being outsourced.


But, because I had looked at this and said what are the metrics that the business is using, the business was using, the outsourcing metrics, their performance metrics, and that was based on the training support that we were writing.


So, you know, it was a jump to the left, because the leadership hadn’t taken that into account, but I could have that kind of conversation that said, here’s the numbers.


Here’s what we’re doing. Here’s, here’s the, here’s the matrix of the groups we helped. Here’s the matrix of the groups.


We didn’t help, and there was a difference, a good one to positive one. But, you know, it comes into play of being aligned with the business.


I think it’s a strength for us to strategically place ourselves into the flow of work and look at this from a consultative perspective around the performance life cycle, and that’s where I think we can start looking at this and going, you know, not everything’s a training problem. But sometimes there are opportunities too.




Procedure relies on job aid, or workflow, um, inserts, create conversations, coaching. So all those things I think, you know, are part of this risk, and, you know, deeper. dive this deeper conversation.


So, so good luck, Todd.


And good luck, Pat. I see this as you, as well, with your coaching engagement. And I hope it all comes out.


If there’s other questions, if not, again, thank you all, and thanks for the input, again, you guys were new guys. Rocket.


Alright, yes, great group today. That will then bring us here to the end of today’s presentation. Today’s webinar was sponsored by HRDQ-U Virtual Seminars. You can check out our curriculum of more than 80 virtual instructor led online seminars. If you go to, and make sure that you join HRDQ-U on your favorite social media site, for quick access to all of our latest webinar events, and blog posts, you can find us at HRDQ-U, that does bring us to the end of today’s session. Thank you so much, Bill, for your time today.


Thank you, Sarah, as always, thank you for inviting me. And thank you all for your participation. It was really great today. Thanks, everybody.


Yes, thank you all for participating in today’s webinar, happy Training.


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HRDQ-U is a free learning community for trainers and facilitators, coaches and consultants, organization development professionals, managers, supervisors and leaders; really anyone who shares a passion for soft-skills training and performance improvement. We bring exciting content to you through webinars from subject matter experts and thought leaders to help you explore new ideas, gain industry insight, and improve people skills in your workplace.