Do you conduct incentive programs or sales contests? How effective are they? Do you run routine training and regular meetings for your sales staff? Most importantly, are you getting all the results you need from your team based on your significant investments? Join training specialist Bob Pike for an informative webinar where you will explore these three formulas companies are using to generate genuine sales results:
What are these formulas, and how can they improve your sales results? You’ll have to attend the webinar to find out — and how to make them work for you! Pike will reveal the meaning behind all three formulas and uncover which one outperforms the others by more than two-to-one — the one he has been using for decades to help clients get massive results from their training, their sales meetings, and their contests.
Sara Lindmont: Hi everyone and welcome to today’s webinar, How to Connect Training
and Incentives for High Impact Sales Results, hosted by HRDQ-U, and
presented by Bob Pike. My name is Sara, and I will moderate today’s
session. The webinar will last about an hour. If you have any questions,
go ahead and type them into the questions’ area on your GoTo webinar
control panel, and then we’ll either answer them as they come in, at the
end of the session as we have time, or after the session by email.
Sara Lindmont: Our presenter today is Bob Pike. He is known globally as the “Trainers
Trainer”. Bob has written more than 30 books and created a dozen
video systems on designing and delivering training. His master trainers
handbook is the bestselling train the trainer book ever published with
more than 333,000 copies in print in four editions. He has designed
more than 600 training programs of one day or longer since 1969.
Sara Lindmont: He has presented at every ATD international conference and exposition
since 1977. He is a regular keynote at global training and performance
conferences. Bob has worked in more than 25 countries during his
career, and his works have been translated into Korean, Chinese,
Japanese, and Spanish. It is an honor to have you speaking with us
Bob Pike: Well, thank you. What a great welcome Sara. Welcome to everybody
that’s online. Let’s get started. Notice at the top, I say focus and clarity.
My question is since this is really about sales training and sales contests,
how do you measure the effectiveness of your sales contest? If you
would just type in the chat box, how do you measure the effectiveness
of your sales contests? Just go ahead and let’s get some responses to
Bob Pike: Sara, if you could just read me a couple as they come in, that’d be great.
Sara Lindmont: Sure. Joe here says enthusiasm with a question mark after the end. Judy
says active participation because it’s not necessarily required.
Bob Pike: Let me just suggest that focus is what are you paying attention to?
Clarity is how well do you understand it? I would ask the same question.
How do we measure the effectiveness of training? A lot of times,
trainers are going at level one, Kirkpatrick’s level one. They loved it.
They just loved it. Let me say that training is a process. It’s not an event,
and it begins long before we ever deliver any training, and it continues
until we see results back on the job. For me, the same is true for sales
contests or incentive programs as it is for training that the purpose of a
sales incentive program is to deliver results.
Bob Pike: Those results can be measured, and we need to think about how do we
do that? What’s the difference between a sales contest and an incentive
program? Very simply, a sales contest is the best win. I remember when
I first started in sales back in the late ’60s. Excuse me. My company was
famous for running contests, where as soon as the contest was
announced, we had about 400 salespeople. Everybody already knew
who the five or six contenders were, and everybody else was going to be
an awesome [inaudible 00:04:29].
Bob Pike: It was very motivational to the top five or 10 who are vying for these
mega prizes, but to the bulk of people, it was business as usual because I
have no chance of winning. Whereas an incentive program, and that’s
what I’ve spent most of my career designing whenever we’re talking
about sales, is one that everybody achieves a level gets rewarded. I
want something that takes every salesperson to another level, not just
the few, the top, the best, the brightest.
Bob Pike: Here are my formulas. Number one is knowledge plus motivation gives
you higher performance, so knowledge, which is training, and plus
motivation to apply that knowledge gives us higher performance. That
would be the ideal. However, oftentimes, we get knowledge with no
incentive, no transfer plan, and we get less than expected improvement.
We get improvement, but it’s not what we’d like based on what we’ve
invested in the training program. Then finally, motivation, an incentive
program without new knowledge and skills gives us energized
Bob Pike: I’m a poor salesperson. I’m used to blowing five prospects out of the
water a week, but this contest is so exciting now blowing 15 prospects
out of the water a week. I’m basically wasting resources. Why? Because
I have no new skills, no new knowledge that’s going to help me do any
better except just more of the same. The ideal is the right training with
the right incentive program, and the right training has a transfer plan.
The two things that I see missing from almost every training program
that I look at for a client is number one, there’s no transfer strategy. It’s
all about the event.
Bob Pike: Secondly, it’s not designed for how the people that are going to be
attending actually learn the best. There’s nothing built-in about learning
preferences. The right training also follows what I call ILPC, instructor2
led but participant-centered principles, instructor-led but participantcentered principles. To produce results, we need a transfer strategy. A
number of years ago, two colleagues of mine actually did research with
85 fortune 500 companies. They discovered that there were actually
three people that really impact whether or not training ever gets used.
Bob Pike: It was the manager, the participant, and the trainer. The three points in
time when they could really make a difference in making sure the
training got used was before, during, and after. Here’s what I want you
to do. Your choices are A through I. I want you to type in the chat box
which of the nine moments of truth has the greatest impact on transfer.
You can choose any of these, and type the letter in the chat box.
Sara Lindmont: We already have some responses coming in. E is looking pretty popular.
I also have G and A. We have just a couple for A. We do have a couple
here for H.
Bob Pike: Well, let me give you the research. Number one is the manager before.
Think about it. I’ll use Sara because I know that she’ll let me use her as
an example. Let’s say that I say, “Okay, Sara, I’ve been told I’ve got to
send you this training by Brad. I don’t know why I’ve got to send you,
but go ahead and go understand. We’re short-staffed. Nobody’s doing
your job while you’re gone. Your project is still due. I don’t know how
you’re ever going to use whatever on earth it is that they’re going to be
teaching you, but go.”
Bob Pike: Let me ask. Have I impacted Sara’s motivation to learn anything at the
training program? I think we’d all answer yes, but in a negative way. On
the other hand, if I say, “Sara, I managed to get you a slot at this training
program, and I understand from talking to the trainer that there are five
key objectives. From the standpoint of our department, I’d really like
you to focus on these three. And I’d like to set up a time right now on
Monday when say 9:00 AM, let’s go over your action plan that I know
you’ll be developing during the program and look at what I need to do
to support you to make sure that over 60 days you really apply what
Bob Pike: The question is have I now impacted Sara’s motivation to learn? The
answer would be yes, but it’s in a positive way. Notice number one,
manager before. Number two, which I don’t think was mentioned by
anybody, is the trainer before. Why? Because managers may not know
how to prepare somebody to go to training. Matter of fact, I just did a
series of a total of seven programs in Asia. In each of the programs, an
average 35 participants, I asked, “How did your manager prepare you to
go to training?” 80%, the manager didn’t prepare them at all. It was
simply, |I got permission to come.”
Bob Pike: Managers may not know how. Maybe nobody’s ever prepared them to
go to training, so they have no model. Maybe they don’t even know
anything about what the training’s about. I think that a lot of managers
right now view training as either reward or punishment. “Sara, you’re
doing a great job. I’m sending you to training,” or, “Sara, you’re doing a
lousy job. I’m sending you to training to better fix you.” It’s a reward or
punishment, not a chance to gain new knowledge and new skills.
Bob Pike: Trainer before is number two. Number three, manager after. Does the
manager support people using what they’ve learned? Number four is
the trainer during? Am I instructor-led, participant-centered? Do I give
people a chance to practice during the program? Do I help them develop
an action plan? Because if you don’t action plan while you’re in the
program, the chances are you won’t action plan after. That’s why near
the end of this session, we’re going to ask you what’s one thing you’re
going to do? Why? Because if you don’t think about it while you’re here
right now with us, the chances are this webinar finishes, and you’ll be
off to something else.
Bob Pike: Notice that the first four create a maximum motivational environment
for everybody, not just the highly motivated. Number five is now the
participant during. Does the participant actually engage? Does the
participant do the activities, develop the action plan, et cetera? Number
six is the participant after they implement their action plan. Number
seven is the participant before. Do they brief colleagues so they’re not
likely to get called out in class? Do they do any pre-work that’s
Bob Pike: Number eight, manager during. As a manager, do I minimize disruptions
so that the participant can focus? Number nine, my job is pretty easy if
all of the other things happen. Here’s the transfer training grid. Actually
with clients over the years, we’ve developed over 155 transfer
strategies, but let me give you three. Number one, manager meet with
the participant and develop learning goals for attendance before they
go to training. Then secondly, trainer brief manager on the goals of the
course so that the manager is capable of doing number one. Then third,
manager provide time for participant to apply new knowledge and skills
after the program.
Bob Pike: One thing I’d like you to strongly consider is how can you apply this to
your next program, because we want the training, the new skills and
new knowledge to get used. Then for the right training, chunk your
content. We may need to apply the minimalist set principle, and so you
see these three buckets. I divide all of my training into need to know,
nice to know, where to go. The key to that is that all too often, we give
people way too much content. We need to practice what most of you
are aware of, the Pareto principle. Let me just ask. Does anybody know
what the Pareto principle is? If you do, just type it into the chat box.
Sara Lindmont: I’m getting a lot of nos, and the couple of yeses don’t share what it is.
They answered yes. [inaudible 00:14:46].
Bob Pike: We had a couple yeses, so I’m going to assume. The Pareto principle is
basically what we call 80/20, so 80% of the value of a company’s in 20%
of its assets. 80% of the sales are made by 20% of the salespeople. 80%
of your customer problems come from 20% of your customers. Actually,
probably 80% of the value in a course, training course, is in 20% of the
content. I want to focus on what are the skills and knowledge that if
people immediately apply them after the training, it’s going to give the
company the biggest bang for the buck. We need to think about how are
we chunking our content.
Bob Pike: Then apply the 90/20/8 rule. We know that adults can listen with
understanding for 90 minutes. They listen with retention for 20 minutes.
We need to involve them every eight minutes, except that if we’re on a
webinar, we actually need to involve people every eight minutes. We
need to involve people every eight minutes. Actually on a webinar, we
need to involve them every four minutes. Why? Because I can’t see you.
I don’t know what else you’re doing. Some of you could be answering
emails or text chatting on your smartphones. I need to get that.
Bob Pike: Sara, I’m having trouble getting…
Sara Lindmont: I see that too. It looks like it’s zoomed. I wonder if you right click.
Bob Pike: You’re a genius. Folks, this is why you have a producer whenever you do
a webinar, because if you can’t figure it out, they probably already have
the answer. Now, what I want you to notice is the bottom of the screen.
When I look at my client’s content, the training programs that they have
already, on average, their content chunks are not 20-minute chunks.
They’re 45-minute chunks. Well, if people only retain 20 minutes, what
we need to do is we need to create 20-minute content chunks so that
we’re re-engaging people every 20 minutes.
Bob Pike: I chunk my content in a 20-minute chunks. Now, you notice the eight.
That means that I’m involving people three times at least in that content
chunk. Why? Because I want retention and recall so that we can have
application. Here is a quick test for you. What is the purpose of training?
Just enter your response in the chat box. Then Sara, you can start giving
me some of the answers.
Sara Lindmont: The first few that came in is get results, empower students. One in three
seem to be the most popular number. I do have a couple twos, fulfill
requirements. Surprised there’s no fours coming in, but it looks like
mostly one and threes.
Bob Pike: If you go back to what I said at the beginning, the purpose of training is
to get results. Why? Because that’s what companies are investing
money in training for. Yes, empowering students may lead to getting
results, and developing people may lead to getting results, and fulfilling
requirements may lead to getting results, but the purpose is to get
results. If we don’t get results but we’re empowering people, then we’re
still not meeting the needs of the organization.
Bob Pike: We also need the right training, and we need to use CORE, closers,
openers, revisiters, energizers. Most trainers don’t close. They just run
out of time. “Whoop, that’s all we have time for. Thanks for coming.
Please be sure to fill out the evaluation form.” They don’t open. They
start dumping content. They review but they don’t revisit. Review is
when the trainer does it again. One of the deadliest things a trainer can
say is, “Let’s review,” because most participants go, “Okay, I don’t have
to listen because he already said that.”
Bob Pike: Well, just because I’ve said it doesn’t mean you’ve learned it, so we
want to revisit, not review. Then energizers, what do you do to get
energy back up, because people are going to lose energy during a
training program? Now, let’s look at incentive programs. Incentive
programs should really accomplish three things. I’m bridging between.
We want to have the right training program. Now, we want the right
incentive. First, we want to elevate the performance of average or poor
performers. We want to raise everybody up. Secondly, we want to
increase overall team activity, especially for high performers.
Bob Pike: Then thirdly, we want to enhance team morale. There’s no point in
running an incentive program and having people demotivated. Bonus
step, reward front end activity, not just the final result. For example, if I
know that increasing my prospect pool leads to a greater pipeline, then
for example, I might give five points for each new qualified prospect. I
might give 10 points for each qualified presentation, but I might give
500 points for each sale, but still I’m rewarding that front end behavior,
not just the final result.
Bob Pike: Here’s my question. What are your questions? Take a minute right now,
and type in questions that you have.
Sara Lindmont: We get a couple coming in. They’re mostly around managers helping
participants with transfer of knowledge. The first one here is from Judy.
How do you recommend setting up managers to assist with the transfer
of knowledge? Is there a process you do to encourage this behavior?
Bob Pike: Great question. Well, let me start by quoting a friend of mine, Michael
LeBoeuf. Michael LeBoeuf wrote a great book a number of years ago
called The Greatest Management Principle in the World, 152 pages. I
can save you reading it, reduce it to two lines. What gets rewarded gets
done. What gets recognized gets repeated. What gets rewarded gets
done. What gets recognized gets repeated. Think about this. If I am a
manager, is my performance rewarded just by seeing to it that get
people training, or do I get rewarded by seeing to it that people
implement the training I’ve got?
Bob Pike: I would say that up to now, maybe there’s no incentive except every
employee has a professional development requirement. They need to
get 40 hours of training a year, and that’s all it takes for the manager to
tick the box. The first thing I would think about is, “Are you providing an
incentive for managers to coach people and prepare people to go to
training?” Then the second thing is I would actually brief managers in
advance. First of all, I want to include managers as we develop training
so that they realize that this training is being designed to solve problems
that are keeping you and your department and your team from
achieving their key results areas.
Bob Pike: Then I might actually brief the manager, “Okay, now here’s the course as
we finalize the design.” Actually, I might even provide the manager with
a sample, “Here’s a learning contract that you can put together. You go
through it with the participant, and both you and the participants sign it
that here’s the expectation of what they’re going to achieve at the
course. Here’s the expectation of what you’re going to do to help
support implementation after the course is over.” I think those are some
things that we can do to really structure that to help get results.
Bob Pike: Sara, another question.
Sara Lindmont: This one’s from Aaron. They ask, “How do you help transfer results
when participant’s first language is not the language the material is
Bob Pike: Well, hopefully it’s at least their second language. Actually, let me just
use… I just spent three weeks in Asia. I would say that in Taiwan, Tokyo,
and Beijing, that 95% of the people, English was not their first language.
It was either Chinese, Mandarin or Japanese. I think that the thing that
you’ve got to look at is… I’ll give you an example. Especially in Beijing, I
did a human lineup at the beginning of the program and I said, “Okay,
now all of you…” We had simultaneous translation.
Bob Pike: I said, “All of you that are capable of listening in English only,” I went to
stand on this half of the room. I had about 15 participants. I said, “Okay,
everybody else form a straight line on the other side of the room.” Then
I said, “Okay, now what I want you to do is line up by your years of
experience as trainers,” because I was running the trainer program.
Then what I did is I was using 11 tables, so I had those listening in
English number off one through 11, and then the other group number
off one through 11. That way, I had a very strong English speaker at
Bob Pike: Actually, I allowed them and encouraged them, “Have your
conversations in Mandarin, but the report out, have that in English.” I
think that part of it is, “Do I have some confident English speakers,
English readers, and partner them throughout the group.?” I would say
that that’s probably the biggest thing. The other thing is perhaps to
provide them with pre-reading that can help them get a grasp of some
of the concepts before they come to training. I would look at those two
Bob Pike: Sara, do we have another question?
Sara Lindmont: We have a couple people who have asked the same thing. They’re
looking for a deeper example or a different example of the 90/20/8 rule.
Bob Pike: Actually, so let’s just go back to that slide. Actually, if you look at an
average training program, it’s probably set into 90-minute modules, so
every 90 minutes, we’re going to take a break. I’ve got my 90 minutes
that looks like this. What I’m going to do is I’m going to have a two to
three-minute opener and a two to three-minute closer at the end of the
90 minutes. Then this in between is going to be chunked, so this might
be a 20-minute chunk. Remember the maximum chunk is 20 minutes.
This might be a 15-minute chunk. This might be a 10-minute chunk. This
might be a [inaudible 00:29:04] minute chunk.
Bob Pike: I’m chunking all of my content into smaller chunks. Now, I take that 20
minutes, or it could be the 15 or the 10 or whatever, and I say, “Okay, so
here’s my content for that 20 minutes.” What kind of participation am I
going to have during that 20 minutes? How am I going to engage them
in the content? Then how important is this content so that I can then
say throughout the rest of the training, how often am I going to revisit
that content? Even if you look at this session that we’re doing, if you…
Bob Pike: Sara, now that I’m finished drawing, how do I…
Sara Lindmont: I think you can go over by your drawing, and you can hit clear screen.
Bob Pike: Okay. I know.
Sara Lindmont: UnderBob Pike: I see it. Okay. Now, tell me how I go backwards and forwards again,
because I cleared the screen, and now, this isn’t… I’m not getting my
PowerPoint to move.
Sara Lindmont: Now it’s not moving?
Bob Pike: Nope.
Sara Lindmont: Under your… Let’s see.
Bob Pike: Wait a second.
Sara Lindmont: You probably still [inaudible 00:31:11] a little bit.
Bob Pike: Maybe I need to just hit escape to get rid of… That’s probably it. I think I
still had the pen, so [inaudible 00:31:28].
Sara Lindmont: Yes. You now have the normal mouse, it looks like.
Bob Pike: Let me just take you through this. If you look at how I started, how do
you measure the effectiveness of your sales contests? I asked you a
question. We’re like, “This is my opener.” Two minutes, you gave me
some feedback. Then how do you measure the effectiveness of your
training? I talked about that. Then what is training? It’s a process, not an
event. Its purpose is to produce results. Then what’s the difference with
the contest and incentive program? Sales contest is the best win. Then I
gave you the formula. You’ve got one chunk of content. Now, we started
the second chunk. I gave you the formulas.
Bob Pike: It’s the right training with the right incentive program. Notice that now
we talk about a transfer plan, follows the principles. We need to
transfer strategies. Now, here’s another chunk, so this whole transfer
grid, and you putting in your guess. I’m giving you that to choose, and
then giving you the results is another chunk of content, but I engaged
you in two different ways in that content. Then we gave you three goals.
Actually, another way I could have engaged would be to say these are
integrated. The first two are integrated, so how many of you believe
that you could implement this in your next program?
Bob Pike: I could just ask for a simple yes or no, or raise your hands. With each of
these, we’re chunking the content in a variety of ways. Then I’m actually
explaining chunking, and need to know, nice to know, where to go. For
example in my workbook that I used for my results-based creative
learning strategies, it’s 147 pages, but 70 of the pages we cover there
need to know. We’re going to cover those in depth in two days. The nice
to know, so for example, we teach openers, but in the nice to know
section, I give 12 different openers and then people can go in and select
one or two that they can apply to their training.
Bob Pike: We’re not going to teach them all. We’re not going to demonstrate
them. They’re there as a bonus content. Then where to go is the
reference section. Here are websites that you can go to other additional
resources. I give a list of my books and how to get them on Amazon,
that kind of thing. We’ve got that bucket if you will. That maybe gives
you a couple of other examples of how we apply the 90/20/8. Do we
have one more question?
Sara Lindmont: We have a question here on participant engagement questions and
what those may look like. That’s from Mark.
Bob Pike: Basically, when you’re thinking, Mark, about participant engagement,
you’re looking at a number of things. For example, my basic thought
would be the person who’s doing the talking is doing the learning. Mark,
right now, if I had you write down your number one action idea, that
would be engagement. If we are in a face-to-face class, I might have you
in a group of five or six. I’d say, “Okay, each of you share one of your
action ideas, and if somebody else has a great action idea, you can add it
to your own list.”
Bob Pike: If I were doing Q&A, I would say, “Get with your table of five or six.
Brainstorm one or two questions you’d like to ask me.” Now, you’re
engaged again. When we were doing the fill in the blank, so on some of
these, you had blanks to fill in. I might’ve actually had you guess to fill in.
For example, I’ve got one on 11 strategies that work for teaching across
any generation and any culture. I have about eight blanks. I give them
the clues, the words that fill in the blanks, and I’d say, “Get a partner
and now fill that in.”
Bob Pike: Actually in my results-based creative learning strategies course, we
actually teach 61 ways to put variety into your training, which is
basically another way of saying 61 ways to engage people. Sara, any
Sara Lindmont: I have… No, not for now.
Bob Pike: Perfect. Here’s my question to you. What’s the number one thing that
you’re going to act on? Remember, earlier I said, if we don’t plan for
how we’re going to use what we’ve learned, the chances are we won’t
have a chance to plan for it afterwards. I’d like each of you right now to
enter in the chat box what’s the most important thing you’re taking
away from this session, and what are you going to do about it in the
next 10 days? Take a minute to reflect, and then type that in the chat
box. Then Sara, let’s give them a minute or two, and then let’s share
some of the things that people are saying.
Sara Lindmont: We have some coming in already. Fiona says, “How important the role
of managers are in the transfer of knowledge and information.”
Bob Pike: That’s great. Now, I want to challenge you to think of what behavior are
you going to do to make that come alive. You know that the manager is
key. How are you going to interact differently with managers to help
improve transfer? That’s the thing that you need to work on.
Sara Lindmont: Riley also comments engage managers before. Shane says apply the
Bob Pike: Perfect.
Sara Lindmont: Christine says use small groups to create questions.
Bob Pike: Very cool. Let me tell you a little bit more about that one. Let’s say that
I’ve got 20 people in a class. I’ve got four groups of five. They
brainstorm, and I say, “Okay, who would like to ask the first question?”
Let’s say it’s group one. I say, “Okay, group one, I’m going to answer
your question, and then you’re going to pick the second group.” I
answer their question. Now, they choose the… They might say group
four. Then I answer group four’s question. Then they pick group three
and then finally group two. Every group gets a question.
Bob Pike: I might set a timer that says, “Okay, we’re going to take 12 minutes for
Q&A.” Then when we finish, I say, “Okay, the 12 minutes is up, but over
here, I’ve got a flip chart that says, capture the question. If you’ve got a
burning question that we did not get to, then feel free to put it on a
sticky note and add it to the capture the question board, and I’ll work in
answers as we go along.” There’s a little bit more depth on how you can
handle that. Other action ideas?
Sara Lindmont: Susan says sharing information, not telling.
Bob Pike: Great. Any others?
Sara Lindmont: I’m scrolling.
Bob Pike: That’s okay.
Sara Lindmont: There’s a lot on manager’s prior. That definitely seems to be a big
learning point. Veronica says all of them, all of the above.
Bob Pike: I’m sorry, that just struck me as funny, but let me just say this. Pick one
anyway, because if it’s like, “I’m going to do everything,” that’d be like
me just before Thanksgiving saying, “All right, this year is going to be
different. I am going to go on a diet just before Thanksgiving, and I’m
going to go to the gym.” Now suddenly, I’m going to the gym five days a
week. I’m drinking water and eating crackers. In three days, the whole
thing collapses because I’m trying to do too much. It’s easier to take one
idea. Follow through. Implement it. Then take another idea. Follow
through and implement it, because the key that I’m looking for is to help
you get results. Actually, let me track back to that.
Bob Pike: I believe the purpose of training is to have participants leave impressed
with themselves, not intimidated by the instructor, excited about what
they now know they didn’t know before, what they can now do they
couldn’t do before with more confidence in themselves. I want each of
you to leave this session with one thing where you say, “Okay, I know
this is going to help me create a higher impact with my training when I
apply it,” and you focus on that one. When you’ve got that one going,
then you pick up another one and say, “Okay, now, I’m going to add that
and create that impact.”
Bob Pike: What I want to do is add value and make a difference, not simply deliver
content today. Let me say one more thing about that. I have a
Thanksgiving gift that I want to offer you. This marks my 50th year as a
professional trainer. I’ve been writing a newsletter every month since
1987, and so usually, it’s $120 a year. It’s eight to 12 pages every month.
It’s digital, but if you want to go to the web address that you see at the
bottom of the screen, you can get it for $50. Plus, I’m giving every one of
my members 50 gifts this year.
Bob Pike: I’m giving people slide deck templates, training activities, music, video
reports. When you total those 50 gifts, it’s over $1,000. Let me just offer
that to you as a gift, and challenge you to take advantage of it. With
that, I would say God bless. Have a blessed Thanksgiving, and I’ll turn it
back to Sara.
Sara Lindmont: Great. Thank you so much, Bob. We do have time for some additional
questions. Go ahead and send those into us, and we’ll answer what we
can. I do already, Bob, have a couple other questions that have come in12
Bob Pike: Great.
Sara Lindmont: … as you’ve gone. We have two really specific questions around
audience. The one is from Evelyn. She asks, “Do you have any strategies
for training first responders?” Then just as a secondary question, I have
someone who’s asked, “Do you have any strategies for training
mandatory compliance-based content to the staff who have been
assigned? They’ve been designated to attend. It’s not by their choice.” I
thought those two ideas worked together.
Bob Pike: Let’s take the second one first, mandatory training. I’ll actually give you
an example that relates to first responders. For example, every two
years, every medical professional has to be re-certified in CPR. It’s
mandatory. They walk in, and they go, “[inaudible 00:45:40] Christmas.
I’ve been a medical professional for 20 years. Now, I’ve got to sit here in
this rinky-dink re-certification program.” The interesting thing is that
when you go through CPR re-certification, you’re being retrained on
something that hopefully you haven’t had to use.
Bob Pike: Yes, you did know it two years ago. The question is, if you haven’t used
it in two years, how much of it do you remember? A lot of times, what
I’ll do is I’ll say, “Look, you’ve got the CPR course. Why don’t you give a
20-question test that everybody will fail?” Because then right at the
beginning you’re saying, “Okay, yes, we’re all medical professionals, and
we’re being trained to use something that we hope we’ll never have to
use. And if we don’t use it, we lose it.” I would conduct the whole
mandatory training in a way that takes whatever skills they can
demonstrate, and then builds it back up.
Bob Pike: [inaudible 00:46:57], if I were looking at first responder training… I
mean, first of all, that’s a pretty broad topic, but I might start with some
research and say, “Okay, here are the top 10 in my…” Now, I wish I had
my son here who is a paramedic. What are the top 10 incidents that first
responders have to be prepared to respond to? Maybe I show them a
list of ten, and say, “What do you think the top three are?” Maybe then I
engage them, and, “Okay, how frequently have you had to respond to
Bob Pike: Maybe the learning points that need to be made in the training can
actually be made by having people share their experiences, and then
using the material to just reinforce those experiences. Those are just a
couple of suggestions that I could make.
Sara Lindmont: We have some questions around accountability. It’s, I think, back to the
notion of getting managers more involved. I can hear our trainers here
as they’re asking questions and commenting that that seems to be a
highlight for them in today’s session. Kylie specifically asks, “How do you
ensure that the manager will provide time for the participant to practice
the knowledge gained to finish the knowledge transfer? How do you
hold accountable when they don’t report to the trainer?”
Bob Pike: Well, see, that’s where I start by saying maybe we ought to look at…
Remember, what gets rewarded gets done. What gets recognized gets
repeated. In the manager’s performance appraisal, is there
accountability for that? I’ll give you an example. A few years ago, I was
asked to do a training for a financial group. It was basically a state
treasury department. We were doing three days of training. At the end
of three days, everybody had an action plan.
Bob Pike: The director of the department sent out a memo saying, “In 60 days,
we’re going to have a debrief meeting, where the people in the program
come back and their managers are going to come back, and the people
in the program are going to present to me and two of my staff the
results of their implementation.” Right from the get-go, individual
managers knew that in 60 days, my participants are going to be
reporting to the director of our department the results. Now, that’s
pressure on the participant, but it’s even more pressure on the
manager, because what if 60 days from now, they say, “Well, I haven’t
had a chance to apply anything, and we still have these goals?”
Bob Pike: Now, they’re just delivering a bunch of excuses. Anyhow, we reaffirmed
that, and we’d reinforce that. Anyhow, at the end of 60 days, we’ve got
25 participants in a fishbowl. In other words, they’re sitting in a threequarter circle in chairs so that they’re all facing the executive director of
the department and two other senior people. Behind them in chairs
were their managers. Now, the interesting thing was that there were
two managers that did not show up. Part of the reason as it unfolded is
that their participants had to say, “Look, we’ve been pressed by this,
and I haven’t had a chance to apply it. And my manager said these goals
were more important, so that’s what I’ve been working. I’ve been
working on those goals.”
Bob Pike: Now, the interesting thing is as a result of that, one of those two
managers actually lost their job. Why? Because the executive director
had said, “This is an important priority, and it’s so important we’re going
to have this meeting.” This manager just chose to ignore it. I would say
that a lot of it is to go back to that what gets rewarded gets done. What
gets recognized gets repeated. I think the other thing is that if you
publish successes. You may not get every manager supporting it, but if
you take managers that are supporting it, then find a way to publish
Bob Pike: Here’s this result that… Here’s how the manager did it. If you start
publishing that out to the managers, that also is a way of influencing
Sara Lindmont: Good. We’ve got two more questions. Then I just also want to share, we
had people chat in their action items. Meltem says dividing content into
the three buckets. Tara says involve every eight minutes.
Bob Pike: Perfect.
Sara Lindmont: I thought you would like to hear those too. Raquel here is asking any
resources available where they can find ideas for the core activities that
you mentioned. Any resources?
Bob Pike: Well, I’ll tell you the biggest resource would be to subscribe to the
newsletter because every single month, we provide new closers,
openers, revisiters, and energizers, but also when you subscribe, you
have immediate access to the last year’s newsletters. Plus, among the
50 gifts are our additional closers, openers, revisiters, energizers. The
other thing I could say is that if you go to Amazon, I have a book on
creative openers and energizers closers that were published by Wiley.
Those are available on Amazon. I think they’re about $40 each.
Bob Pike: If you go to Amazon and just type in Bob Pike books, you’ll have
probably 25 of my 35 or 40 books that will pop up. Those would be two
places to get additional resources.
Sara Lindmont: Great. Our last question here is from Julie. Julie wants to know what is
your best opener?
Bob Pike: Well, I would say my best opener… Well, the first thing I would say is it
depends because it depends on the size group and how long the training
is. Let’s say that it’s an average one or two-day program. Let’s say I’ve
got 30 participants. I like to do a human lineup. I line all 30 participants
up, and depending on the topic. Let’s say it’s leadership. When I say go
in silence, you’re going to move up and down the line. At the end of a
minute, those of you with the least experience in leadership are going to
be here, and the most experience over there.
Bob Pike: They have a minute in silence to move up and down the line. When they
finish doing it, then I say, “Okay, great. You’ve got 30 seconds. Make
sure you’re in the right place.” Then when that’s over, let’s say that I
have six tables. I just have them number off one through six, and now,
I’ve combined the experience, so I have some newer people and more
experienced people all in the same group. What it also does is if I have
some resistors, it separates them because my experience is resistors can
find one another. They don’t even know one another. I would have to
say that if it’s not my best, that’s probably my favorite.
Sara Lindmont: Perfect. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Bob, for sharing your expertise
today. Thank you everyone for really participating on today’s session.
For those of you who are not familiar with HRDQ, we publish researchbased experiential learning products that you can deliver in your
organization. Check out our online or print self-assessments. We’ve got
up out of your seat games, reproducible workshops as well. Check out
our website, or you can give a call to our customer service team. If you
do need help training a program or you want one of our expert trainers
to deliver it for you, we also provide those services.
Sara Lindmont: We do look forward to being your soft skills training resource. Bob, it is
always a pleasure to work with you and to hear your knowledge and
expertise. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Bob Pike: It was a pleasure, and I look forward to seeing you again.
Sara Lindmont: Thank you everyone for participating, and happy training.
Bob Pike, CPLP Fellow, CSP, CPAE Speakers Hall of Fame, is known globally as the “trainer’s trainer.” He has written more than 30 books and created a dozen video systems on designing and delivering training. His Master Trainer Handbook: Tips, Tactics, and How-Tos for Delivering Effective Instructor-Led, Participant-Centered Training is the bestselling train-the-trainer book ever published, with more than 333,000 copies in print in four editions. He has designed more than 600 training programs of one day or longer since 1969. He has presented at every ATD International Conference & Exposition since 1977 and is a regular keynoter at global training and performance conferences. He has worked in more than 25 countries during his career, and his works are available in Korean, Chinese, Japanese, and Spanish.
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